Xingjiang, a reporter from Photoworld magazine in China,
interviewed me about Ken Schles: Invisible City, A Digital
Resource, the digital photobook I did with Matt Johnston of the
Photobook Club in England. The magazine belongs to the Chinese
Xinhua News Agency, the national news agency of China. In January
they ran a feature on digital promotion, focusing on the role
played by new media. Xingjiang said, "You are a famous
photographer, and have published your iBook Invisible City. So we
hope to interview you. Could you share with Chinese reader the
experience and views on Digital Promotion of photographer? Thank
you very much for your time."
I've edited a bit of it to run here. I hope you
Xingjiang: Why did you decide to publish the
iBook of Invisible City since the book had already been very
successful in the past?
Ken Schles: My book, Invisible City,
was very successful in the pre-Internet age. Twenty-five
years ago, in 1988, it was a New York Times notable book of the
year and won an award for book design from the American Institute
of Graphic Arts. In 1992 it was exhibited at the Museum of Modern
Art, in New York as the only representative for the printed
photographic book in a large exhibition showing the uses of
photography across a spectrum of the arts. The book sold out
quickly. It had a cult following. But the world of photobook
enthusiasts was small at the time-non-existent really compared to
what it is today. It was hard for people outside my small community
to experience the book. People began to be very protective of
it-they'd store it in a special way. Keep it under lock and key.
But as time moved on it seemed that fewer and fewer people knew of
the project. And with prices on the resale market hitting over
$1000US at times (and now higher) I was reluctant to lend copies.
No longer readily available, there was no way for people to get
hold of it or to see it. And that bothered me.
Something of significance gets lost having a photobook in such a
rarified place. You make a photobook because you believe you have
something of value to say or have something vital to share. In the
last few years there's been a growing interest in photographic
books including a new appraisal of great photographic books of the
past. I felt this was the time to get the word out about
Invisible City, if people were to appreciate it again. If
I couldn't accomplish that, I knew that the project would be lost
to a new generation. And possibly lost for good.
In December of 2010, I heard about the project #Phonar. Matt
Johnston and Jonathan Worth, out of Coventry University, in
England, had been exploring great narrative photobooks. They were
giving open classes over the Internet with tens of thousands of
participants (#phonar). At one point they asked a small group of
critics, historians, writers and photographers to name a photo book
that was important to them. Matt and Jonathan would contact the
author of the chosen photo book, and then, in turn, ask
them to pick a photobook that they liked, and so on,
creating a virtual discussion describing a chain of influence.
"…we contacted some of the worlds most inspirational
photographic practitioners, thinkers, authors and publishers and
asked them for a book nomination that is
notable/inspiring/seminal/provocative in it's narrative
structure/approach or perhaps in its 'discussion' of
The results yielded 31 contributors, 60 nominations on 54
different books. My book, Invisible City, was one of the
few that came up more than once.
I thought the #phonar project was an innovative use of the web
to create a crowd-sourced "best of" list. Its success, and the
discourse it enabled, led Matt to create the Photobook Club in
March of 2011 (www.photobookclub.org). The Photobook Club
conducted open, crowd sourced discussions on classic photographic
books. Matt and I started emailing back and forth about the
Photobook Club project and he thought it would be interesting to
include my voice in a discussion about Invisible City.
The month online at the Photobook Club proved very successful.
Matt had already been thinking to make the online material
"self-contained" and port it into an iBook using iBooks Author (http://www.apple.com/ibooks-author/). (Btw,
anyone can use it to make his or her own eBook. The program is a
free download and it comes with pre-existing templates.)
X: In your opinion, is there a difference
between an eBook and paper edition for a photo book?
KS: Yes, very much so. Indeed, I have to
profess my love for traditional photography books. The haptic
qualities of a well-conceived and beautifully constructed book are
irreplaceable. A great book is a private, tactile and existentially
transformative experience. It allows for a direct connection
between a creator and a consumer of that work. It allows space for
reflection and engagement. I think digital media can provide some
of those qualities, but not all. An eBook seduces differently and
possesses other qualities. Photos look beautifully luminous on a
screen, but because the image "disappears" (when the next one
"appears") there is a different kind of engagement physically,
psychologically and intellectually.
The ephemeral quality of the image on the digital screen has
definite downsides but can also be quite magical. Digital
information is no longer tethered to a specific object in a
specific location. I can read multiple books on the same reader, or
switch between an e-reader and a computer, picking up on an e-Book
where I left off on different machines. It may be convenient to do
so, but the larger effect is that content becomes de-linked to any
specific fetishized object. Afterwards, all one has is a memory of
the experience. This can be somewhat dislocating: there is no book
to hold or leaf through, no reminder of the book's presence sitting
on the table or shelf.
Because there are no physical material limitations (outside of
the capabilities of the technology delivering the content), with
the digital form it is easy to create multiple reference points for
a project. I really like that with an e-photobook one can create
content to explore background on a project, show a video, use sound
and include it along with the project. With an e-book, one can
inform a work, not just show work. The digital books I enjoy best
are multivalent, and allow more than one way to become engaged.
So, digital is a different beast than books. There is a range of
creative possibilities not found in traditional books combined with
a particular immateriality.
It's been interesting to see how fetishized photography books
have become over the last few years. I think this is a direct
reaction to digital technology. Not having an object quality,
digital media has emphasized the material qualities of the book as
idea embedded in a form and contained in an object. What digital
media tells us is that books as embedded experience
are indeed something to value.
Right now, most digital photographic books reference
pre-existing traditional photography books. I believe this is a
legacy of language, convention and expediency more than anything.
We label and categorize digital media to understand it from
traditional perspectives. This also allows us to sell and promote
the content through pre-existing and familiar marketing venues. But
digital photography books need not resemble or mimic their analog
I do believe digital photobook vs. traditional photobook debates
miss an essential point however. In a Marshall McLuhan sense, "the
medium is the message," and everything that is mediated is now in
relation to how it integrates into a digital ecology that is
socially exchanged, socially engaged and socially discussed. All
traditional media is transformed by its relationship to digital
technology. Beautifully manufactured, traditionally printed
photographic books are rare physical things, increasingly expensive
to produce, ship and purchase. But because of digital technology
and digital media, the impact and influence of a short run book of,
say, 15 to 1500 copies, can have a very wide impact. Walker Evans
used to say that his exhibitions were his calling cards, that his
books were his passports. They would establish his work in the
minds of people he did not know and would never meet. The Internet,
digital books, digital media, can do that for all of us now and on
a scale unimaginable in the past.
X: Who proposed the iBook for free download?
And what it means for you and your fans?
KS: The Photobook Club was founded on
principals of sharing ideas and of sharing work. Its whole premise
is that photography books are wonderful things, multitudinous in
their expression: sometimes hard to find and sometimes quite rare.
So they say let's have a meet-up. Let's get everyone together and
share our favorite books and share what we know and what we love.
Who wants to argue with that? In making Ken Schles: Invisible
City, A Digital Resource available, we all wanted to share
this body of work and increase its presence and its accessibility.
We discussed charging a nominal fee for the iBook, but dismissed
the idea immediately. What does it means to my fans? I think
they are thrilled, and many have let me know. Me? I'm happy that I
can share it with them.
X: Could you tell us something about the role
played by new media in photographer's self-promotion, such as blog,
website or iPad?
KS: I think that it is impossible to exist in
the public realm without engaging some form of new media, be it
directly or indirectly through proxies. As I said above, all media
exists in relation with digital media now. Think of it as an
ecosystem. The most important aspect of new media is how it brings
people together across all barriers regardless of distance. Years
ago it was a big thing to be in contact even with people across
one's own country. Now, I communicate with people from all over the
world on a daily basis. Self-promotion? Perhaps. I think it's more
about communication, community and the sharing of ideas. New media
can take many forms and each form has positive and negative aspects
related to time, immediacy, the amount of effort it takes to keep
up and, most importantly, how that particular mode best operates to
get your ideas across. But I believe you should only engage it as
much as your comfort level allows. I try to balance it with
projects and ideas that I'm currently engaged in. It's exciting
when something that you've gotten excited about, and spent a great
deal of time and energy working on, gets amplified and is reflected
in the world outside. People's excitement feeds on itself. That can
be a wonderful thing. This is the promise that fuels new media. It
is a useful tool.
X: What's your opinion on using new media like
App to watch photos? And what's your opinion on the impact of new
media for photography books and photography industry?
KS: New media has been crucial to the
dissemination of photography books. Here in the United States
traditional bookstores have been closing, not being able to compete
with the juggernaut of the online retailer Amazon. With fewer
bookstores it's harder to find places where you can easily preview
(expensive) photography books, so word of mouth, online media,
blogs, book trailers (book trailers are like movie trailers, but
for books), websites, exhibitions, reviews, iBooks, Facebook
groups, Photobook Clubs and photobook meet-ups are all crucial to
exposing new audiences to new work. The one ray of light in a
dwindling analog book market, one that has been a profitable source
of revenue for bricks and mortar bookstores, are nicely produced
books that are appreciated as objects unto themselves. Because of
this there is a new breed of smaller "boutique" stores opening in
many cities, bookstores that specialize in rare photography books
and new photography books with small print runs.
All this interest-the ease of online communication, the ability
to distribute books outside of traditional book distribution
chains, the proliferation of new media-all combined with lower
technological barriers and lower cost barriers for making books
create new opportunities for more people to get involved with
photographic books. It has set off an explosion of new
photobook-makers, new photobook publishers and specialized
photobook events around the world where people talk about making
photography books, share photographic books and sell photographic
books. There are so many new photography books published annually
now that it is outright impossible to see them all. This is a
radical change from years ago when only a few photographic books
were published in any given year by the large publishing concerns.
And people interested in exploring new possibilities for books are
also exploring digital content.
X: Are there any other new technologies, new
concepts, new equipment have impact your photography in recent
KS: The whole photographic industry has been
transformed by changes in technology and the changes in the
distribution of media. But one thing I have to say, while the
barriers to creating and disseminating work have been lowered,
great work is still a rare and beautiful thing. Seek it out, admire
it and nurture it. When you see something that moves you, engage it
and share it with your friends. Talk about it. Try to better
understand it. Technology enables, it does not dictate, nor does it
make something inherently worthwhile. Seek out meaning and
We are in a time of transition and the things we focus our
attentions on will shape our future and lead us to new
X: Do you have any plans for using new media to
re-examine your past work and to do your new work?
KS: Take a look at Ken Schles: Invisible
City, A Digital Resource and let me know what you think. As
for the future, I think I have to take every possibility into
X: If a young photographer wants to publish
his/her book in ibook way, do you have any suggestion or
KS: Go for it. Make it the best you can.
Download Ken Schles: Invisible City, A
Digital Resource (enhanced pdf or iBook version).
And if you are in the Bay area of San Francisco there is an
exhibition of Invisible City at the U.C. Berkeley Graduate school
of Journalism Center for Photography currently up on display and
running through April 30th. I will be giving a talk March
8th, reception at 6pm, talk at 7:30 North Gate room 105.
Here are directions. See you there!
Ken Schles (Foam Magazine #5/Near)